Music and geekdom go together like a sick verse over a tight beat. Like a stunning vocal over a moving melody. Like a… you get the point! We’re talking about the crossover of music and everything from comics, to movies, to shows, and beyond.
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Joshua: Welcome to Geekology 101.
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Joshua: My name is Joshua.
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Diego: And my name is Diego.
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Joshua: And today, we're going to be diving into how music and geekdom play a part in each other and are in some moments inspired by each other.
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Diego: And how they like date each other and fall in love.
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Joshua: All right.
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Diego: Yeah, there's a lot of this music and geekdom.
...
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Diego: And by geekdom, we mean really anything that people can geek out about.
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Diego: Any kind of content like comics, movies, games, books.
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Diego: Yeah.
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Joshua: Anime.
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Diego: Shows.
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Diego: All sorts of stuff.
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Diego: And there's always a relationship happening, like a symbiotic relationship back and forth.
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Diego: Like one feeds the other, the other feeds it.
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Diego: It's a very interesting relationship.
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Diego: And we want to talk about some examples of that and just how that relationship reflects itself.
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Joshua: And I just feel really bad for Sue.
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Diego: Don't feel bad for Sue.
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Diego: If you were to listen to the song, you would realize that his dad did him a favor.
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Diego: He prepared him for life by giving him a name that made him be bullied his whole life.
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Diego: And he became somebody really, really tough in life.
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Joshua: I mean, I guess...
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Diego: The funny thing is that the song at the end, it ends with his son feeling all emotional and stuff out of gratitude for his dad, and they're in good terms.
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Diego: And then he's like, you know, and when I have a son, dad, I'm going to name him, and there's a pause for drama, Bob, Rob, John, anything except for Sue.
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Joshua: It's a glorious song.
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Diego: Johnny Cash sang that, bro.
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Diego: It's a great song.
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Diego: Anyway, so let's start out by talking about probably the more obvious form of the relationship between music and geekdom, and that's where musicians adapt existing properties, characters, things into their music or into their artistic persona.
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Joshua: Yeah, I think one of the best and most popular examples of this is MF Dune.
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Diego: Yeah, I think that's one of the best.
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Diego: I don't know, one of the most popular.
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Diego: Do most people know who MF Dune is?
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Joshua: I mean, he's not that obscure.
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Diego: I mean, but again, do most people know who MF Dune is?
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Diego: I don't think so.
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Joshua: I guess.
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Diego: I mean, I've known who MF Dune is for ages because I've been a hip hop fan for a long, long time, but I don't think most people know who he is.
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Diego: He didn't really break too much into the mainstream, man.
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Joshua: Really?
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Diego: Yeah, I don't think so.
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Diego: I don't know.
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Diego: I mean, he's done stuff with tons of many rappers who are famous.
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Diego: But I think his best chance at being noticed was probably back in the 90s.
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Diego: Even then, it didn't get to a big level because rap was very different than what he was making.
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Diego: The mainstream rap was very different.
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Diego: But yeah, no, I agree with you.
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Diego: I think that that's a really, really good example.
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Diego: So explain MF Doom's whole gimmick.
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Joshua: So basically, I mean, obviously, his name is basically just sounds like Doctor Doom.
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Joshua: And he has two albums, I think, literally called Victor Von, which are good albums.
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Joshua: But his mask also resembles Doctor Doom.
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Joshua: And originally, when he was like in the prototype stages of his persona, he actually used a Doctor Doom mask and sort of cut it up, right?
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Joshua: Which that whole Doctor Doom persona, that is his entire thing.
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Joshua: His whole thing is that he's a villain, basically.
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Joshua: He's the illest villain.
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Joshua: And all he raps about is stuff having to do with villainy, basically.
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Diego: There's a lot of sampling of like, to this day, I'm actually not sure if it's like actual shows, if it's taken, like it's dialogue from like a show of like from Doctor Doom as a villain.
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Diego: And there's like all sorts of people talking.
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Diego: And it sounds like a drama of like, you know, comic book brought to a TV show form.
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Diego: And I'm not even sure it's real or not.
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Diego: I don't know if they like recorded that custom for his albums, or if he's actually sampling something from like way, way, way back in the day.
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Diego: Because there's like, there's tons of stuff that was made way back in the day, like a lot of TV shows and stuff.
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Joshua: Like kind of like obscure.
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Diego: Yeah, like I'm talking like before the 1960s Batman show.
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Diego: There was like a Shazam show, and there was like this really old Captain America movie.
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Diego: Really weird, man.
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Diego: Very obscure things that like, of course, kids who read comics would have been thrilled to see, you know?
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Diego: And so it's like from that era is where he's sampling all these different scenes and stuff like that in his music, and he's constantly doing it.
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Diego: Another group that does something similar is Zarface.
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Diego: They draw pretty heavily on comics, and they draw pretty heavily on wrestling as well.
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Diego: And wrestling is-
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Diego: Oh yeah, big time.
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Diego: And wrestling is like-
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Diego: wrestling is almost like another form of fiction, I feel like.
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Joshua: Yeah, there's like-
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Diego: Not what I feel like, it is another form of fiction.
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Joshua: There's like incredible storylines that span decades with The Undertaker and Kane, and a bunch of storylines and bloodlines that go crazy.
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Diego: Like all the classic stuff from any kind of fictional story.
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Diego: You got heroes, you got villains, right?
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Diego: The heels and the baby faces.
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Diego: You've got rivalries, like really big rivalries.
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Diego: Like every major character in wrestling has their arch nemesis.
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Diego: Superman has Lex Luthor, like Batman has the Joker.
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Diego: You've got always like these pairings of like these ultimate enemies within wrestling.
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Diego: And the wrestling characters, especially back like in the 90s and early 2000s, were very cartoonish, you know, they all had very defined gimmicks.
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Diego: Nowadays, it's more normal for wrestlers to act a little bit more as like like a regular selves, like an exaggerated version of themselves.
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Diego: I feel like Stone Cold Steve Austin broke that quite a bit.
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Diego: Stone Cold became kind of like just an amped up version of how he really was.
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Diego: Yeah, as opposed to like a gimmicky gimmick thing, like The Undertaker, or like Mankind, or Kane, or Lex Luger, you know, the old American hero, or Hulk Hogan, that sort of thing.
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Diego: And wrestling is something that's cited by a ton of artists.
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Diego: A West Side Gun and Conway the Machine from the Griselda family.
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Diego: Those two dudes love wrestling, and they make references to wrestling all the time.
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Joshua: Actually, Lil Uzi Vert, on his newest album, he sampled...
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Joshua: what's that guy's name?
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Joshua: Nakamura?
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Diego: Nakamura?
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Joshua: Yeah, Nakamura.
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Joshua: He sampled his intro.
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Diego: His entrance music?
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Joshua: Yeah, his entrance music in one of his songs on his latest album.
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Diego: That's crazy.
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Diego: Well, there you go, right?
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Diego: It's like...
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Diego: and again, considering wrestling a form of fiction, you really do kind of get a lot of influence in that.
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Diego: And then you've got characters who are constantly making references, like Ghostface from Wu-Tang.
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Diego: He's constantly making references to Iron Man.
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Diego: Tony Stark is one of his aliases.
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Diego: To the point where he got featured in a deleted scene in Iron Man 1.
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Joshua: Really?
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Diego: Yeah, Tony Stark goes to a party.
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Diego: Ghostface Party, yeah, he gets invited to Ghostface Killers' party.
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Diego: And there's actually the scene where Rody in Iron Man 1, where Rody and Iron Man are on the airplane, and they're hanging out and partying with the stewardesses.
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Diego: There's a movie, there's something playing in the background, and it's like a Ghostface Killer video.
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Joshua: That's actually, his alias became that popular.
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Diego: Yeah, for sure.
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Diego: For sure.
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Diego: And then you've got Method Man also from Wu-Tang, who's constantly referencing himself as Johnny Blaze, who is the ghost rider.
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Diego: In the video to the song Triumph, he comes out almost like Ghost Rider.
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Diego: He's riding a motorcycle, and he's on fire.
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Joshua: Really?
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Diego: All he needed was to make his skull catch on fire, and he would have been Ghost Rider.
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Diego: So anyway, yeah, there's a lot of references to existing stuff.
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Diego: And our musicians drawing inspiration for their own identities from characters from different places, you know?
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Diego: Then you've got musicians who reference content.
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Diego: Like I was talking about not being sure if MF Doom is actually sampling real content, like some real show that had Dr.
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Diego: Doom in it.
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Diego: But there's tons of movies that are being referenced to or being actually like play pieces of the movie being played in music all the time, especially in hip hop.
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Diego: Hip hop is really big about that.
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Joshua: I've heard a lot of songs.
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Joshua: I can't really name a certain song or a certain artist, but it's like where artists will mention, they'll have a bar where they're like, I don't know, like, and then they'll say like a character's name or something, something like that.
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Diego: Yeah, there's too many to mention of those scenarios.
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Diego: And I think the whole bravado and the gangster identity that hip hop had for such a long time immediately had a connection with a lot of like Italian mobster movies.
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Diego: So you had tons, like, oh my God, so many scenes being played from Scarface, Godfather, Goodfellas, like movies that are the quintessential Italian mobster movies being played as either like the intro to a song or in an interlude or as part of like, you know, an ad lib, you know, at some point in the song.
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Joshua: Actually, in MF Doom's song, all caps the music video, like his whole thing about him being a villain, like aside from him being like a Marvel villain type, like MF Doom, or like Doctor Doom, in that music video, the animated music video, it shows him as like a gangster, like an Italian gangster with like a trench coat and the hat.
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Joshua: And that's like a different take on being a villain, being like a real life villain.
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Diego: I also think back to in the 1990s, Sprite.
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Joshua: Sprite?
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Joshua: The drink?
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Diego: The drink had this campaign going, where they combined rappers with Voltron.
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Diego: And I'm sure 1990s people know what I'm talking about.
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Joshua: Voltron as in the robot where all the different animals.
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Diego: Five lions, five lions will become a giant mech.
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Diego: Yeah.
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Diego: So like basically, like the commercial, each commercial would feature one rapper.
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Diego: And there was like, oh god, I forget what rappers it was that they featured at this point.
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Diego: And it's been so long.
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Diego: I know Busta Rhymes was one of them, I think.
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Diego: Maybe Big Pond or Fat Joe, I can't remember.
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Diego: But like every commercial would be one rapper piloting one of the lions.
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Diego: And like they made you wait for months for the next one to come out.
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Diego: And you were there, speaking for myself, I was there like just waiting during commercial breaks.
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Diego: Like when is the next rapper lion going to come out?
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Diego: Because of course, I was a fan of Voltron as a kid.
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Joshua: At the end, did they all come together to make Voltron?
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Diego: So like the fifth one, which is the black lion, the biggest one, that forms like the torso, the robot in the head, that one was Africa Bambada, who unfortunately ended up getting caught in like some kind of human trafficking ring or some crazy thing like that.
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Diego: So, you know, respect has been lost for him, to say the least at this point.
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Diego: But back then, he was very much known as a pioneer within hip hop, a forefather of hip hop, somebody that was very revered.
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Diego: And he had this whole thing called the Temple of Hip Hop, where he kind of like mixed a sense of like a flavor of spirituality with hip hop.
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Diego: So like him being the fifth lion, the head of the thing kind of made, you know, it was like, oh, we're all like, oh, my God, Africa Bambada, that's amazing.
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Diego: And then they came together and they fought the enemy and whatever.
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Diego: But all of it was like, it was live action when they were inside piloting the thing, and the rest was animated.
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Joshua: Yeah, that actually sounds pretty cool.
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Joshua: Something else that is definitely not old school hip hop related.
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Joshua: Playboy Cardi, his whole persona, well, it kind of changed.
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Joshua: At first, when he came out first, his whole thing was very lighthearted.
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Joshua: His breakout single Magnolia, their music video was very bright.
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Joshua: They're outside in New York having fun.
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Joshua: But when he released his third studio album, Whole Lotta Red, his entire persona and the artists that were signed to his label, they all became vampires.
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Joshua: Their whole persona was just that they're vampires.
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Joshua: They call themselves vamps.
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Diego: Really?
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Joshua: And they became mysterious.
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Joshua: They were wearing all black.
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Joshua: They were becoming just mysterious vampires.
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Joshua: And Playboy Cardi, in one of the songs on Whole Lotta Red, he sampled the vampire song.
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Joshua: He sampled that.
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Diego: What is that from?
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Joshua: It's...
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Joshua: I don't know.
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Joshua: It's like a Beethoven song or something, or something.
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Diego: Oh, I think you know what you're talking about.
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Joshua: Yeah.
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Joshua: And he sampled that.
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Joshua: It was like the first couple of notes on the song.
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Joshua: And then it just went, dun.
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Joshua: He sampled literally the Dracula soundtrack on those songs.
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Diego: I like that.
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Diego: That's pretty neat, man.
00:16:09.908 --> 00:16:10.608
Diego: That's pretty neat.
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Diego: I like stuff like that better, you know?
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Diego: That starts getting, I think, towards a relationship between geekdom and music that is probably my preferred flavor, which is artists doing their own thing, inspired by other things, creating their own thing.
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Diego: All right, and let's go to that.
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Diego: Let's go to that point.
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Diego: Artists creating their own lore, right?
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Diego: It's no longer like they're sampling a thing or playing a scene from a movie or a cartoon.
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Diego: It's no longer where they're like taking a name from somewhere in comics or whatever, which, by the way, like really, hip hop is probably the most guilty of that.
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Joshua: Yeah, taking names and kind of flipping it or making new meanings and just taking it for themselves.
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Diego: Yeah, and I think it probably has a lot to do with where hip hop was born, you know?
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Diego: It's like Wu Tang, for example, doing the whole Kung Fu thing, that was very, very much tied to the culture of the place that they lived.
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Diego: Really?
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Diego: Yeah, because these guys used to go to Saturday morning Kung Fu theater, like in their neighborhoods.
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Joshua: That was a thing?
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Diego: Yeah, like a local theater would open up for real cheap, they would be able to go and watch multiple Kung Fu movies.
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Diego: Yeah, because it was super cheap for them to play that there, and they would charge cheap for them to go in.
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Diego: So it's like, that's the reason why this had so much meaning to all these kids, because they grew up going to that every Saturday morning.
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Diego: That was like a jam.
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Diego: So suddenly, to hear that, everybody who grew up in that generation immediately recognizes those sounds.
00:17:48.708 --> 00:17:56.008
Diego: That's probably part of the appeal and why Wutang became as big as it was locally there in Staten Island, and the five boroughs of New York and all that.
00:17:56.268 --> 00:17:57.588
Diego: People knew that sound.
00:17:58.108 --> 00:18:11.348
Diego: So, but once you get away from that, from actually sampling the exact thing, which, by the way, maybe this serves as a transition to this next point of artists creating their own lore.
00:18:13.048 --> 00:18:16.348
Diego: You had the beginnings, and that's all thanks to RZA, right?
00:18:17.028 --> 00:18:22.788
Diego: The guy who created Wutang, essentially, and who produced the Wutang music, at least for the first few albums.
00:18:24.028 --> 00:18:28.868
Diego: Fast forward many years, and now this dude is making his own kung fu movies.
00:18:28.888 --> 00:18:32.308
Joshua: Yeah, that's very fortunate.
00:18:32.308 --> 00:18:35.628
Diego: Yeah, Man with the Iron Fist, or whatever it is, it's like two different movies.
00:18:36.248 --> 00:18:40.988
Diego: He's doing the soundtrack to Afro Samurai.
00:18:41.928 --> 00:18:45.468
Diego: He's doing the soundtrack to a whole bunch of other martial arts movies.
00:18:45.688 --> 00:18:54.128
Joshua: If he sampled his own kung fu movies, that would be the greatest full circle of all time.
00:18:54.128 --> 00:18:54.748
Diego: It would be.
00:18:55.888 --> 00:19:07.528
Diego: But yeah, it's pretty cool to see that he first started sampling other content, and then he ended up being powerful and influential enough to create his own content and make his own version of those things.
00:19:07.548 --> 00:19:08.928
Diego: It's awesome.
00:19:09.468 --> 00:19:26.248
Diego: And then, so on that, there are artists who do take inspiration from fiction and from different kinds of entertainment and stuff that they grew up with, stuff that inspired them as a kid, and they use that to create their own worlds.
00:19:26.268 --> 00:19:28.748
Diego: So let's talk about that.
00:19:28.768 --> 00:19:34.088
Diego: What kind of artists come to mind when you say that, when we bring up that idea?
00:19:34.308 --> 00:19:38.248
Joshua: Something that comes to mind is actually Tyler, the creator.
00:19:38.908 --> 00:20:07.708
Joshua: In his earlier, his first three albums, I think, he created, his first three albums were all connected, and it was basically, it was him talking to his therapist and describing, like, each album was a session of therapy, and it was all the songs were him, like, describing his thoughts and stuff that he did.
00:20:07.788 --> 00:20:08.528
Diego: I remember that.
00:20:08.548 --> 00:20:09.968
Joshua: Yeah, to his therapist.
00:20:09.968 --> 00:20:21.608
Joshua: And I think that's one of the most creative forms of, like, he's not just rapping about whatever, he's, it's an actual story.
00:20:21.888 --> 00:20:25.168
Diego: Yeah, it's like there is a thread connecting all the songs.
00:20:25.448 --> 00:20:28.068
Joshua: Yeah, and he's talking to someone.
00:20:28.348 --> 00:20:32.468
Joshua: He's not just rapping for anybody who listen, he's talking to someone specifically.
00:20:32.948 --> 00:20:34.168
Joshua: I thought that was pretty cool.
00:20:34.188 --> 00:20:37.488
Diego: Yeah, you got like that distorted voice of the therapist coming in once in a while.
00:20:37.508 --> 00:20:42.428
Joshua: Yeah, yeah, like, well, Tyler, I'm a little bit confused.
00:20:42.448 --> 00:20:44.808
Joshua: Can you go back a little for me?
00:20:44.828 --> 00:20:46.648
Joshua: Like, yeah, that was really cool.
00:20:46.668 --> 00:20:47.748
Diego: Yeah, that's pretty creative.
00:20:48.488 --> 00:20:53.968
Diego: But there's, I think, there are some artists that definitely create worlds, you know?
00:20:56.148 --> 00:20:59.208
Diego: Let's think, for example, of gorillas.
00:21:00.388 --> 00:21:09.668
Diego: And I love gorillas because they went the extra step of not just creating a lore, but actually, like, basically like a whole cart.
00:21:14.308 --> 00:21:25.448
Diego: It was during a time where, and this is like from an interview that I read, that where they came up with this idea was because they were watching the two guys who created gorillas.
00:21:26.028 --> 00:21:32.608
Diego: They were watching MTV, and they were realizing like how scrutinized artists were.
00:21:32.908 --> 00:21:36.148
Diego: This was like the height of paparazzi chasing artists everywhere.
00:21:36.948 --> 00:21:43.148
Diego: And just, you know, any weird face that they caught them making on camera, like they would publish it on these rag magazines.
00:21:43.208 --> 00:21:43.628
Joshua: Yeah.
00:21:44.248 --> 00:21:53.708
Diego: Anyway, so they were like, you know what, like, let's erase our face from the equation, you know, and create these things that nobody could say anything about, you know?
00:21:54.608 --> 00:22:02.868
Diego: And also inspired by the fact that they felt like Hollywood and musician lives were becoming more and more like cartoonish.
00:22:03.148 --> 00:22:03.568
Joshua: Yeah.
00:22:03.768 --> 00:22:13.208
Diego: You know, so that just led them to go and like, let's actually create cartoon versions of ourselves and give them their own names and like, devils are the artists.
00:22:13.608 --> 00:22:15.148
Diego: You want to attack the artists, attack them.
00:22:15.428 --> 00:22:15.848
Joshua: Yeah.
00:22:15.948 --> 00:22:16.488
Diego: Sort of thing.
00:22:16.868 --> 00:22:18.388
Diego: And then that thing just grew, man.
00:22:18.408 --> 00:22:22.648
Diego: Like they created the thing, and at first it was like 2D animation.
00:22:22.668 --> 00:22:24.928
Diego: Then like their videos started getting in 3D.
00:22:24.948 --> 00:22:30.208
Joshua: Yeah, it went from like 2D to 3D, and then some people didn't like the 3D.
00:22:30.628 --> 00:22:34.808
Joshua: So it went back to 2D, and then it went back to 3D in their most recent album.
00:22:35.828 --> 00:22:42.488
Diego: They did, they started showing a world that they started creating.
00:22:42.508 --> 00:22:43.948
Diego: I think it was around the second album.
00:22:44.028 --> 00:22:46.008
Diego: I think Plastic Beach is the second album.
00:22:46.168 --> 00:22:47.848
Joshua: Plastic, yeah.
00:22:47.868 --> 00:22:48.268
Joshua: What is it?
00:22:48.428 --> 00:22:49.428
Diego: Second or third album.
00:22:49.488 --> 00:22:57.208
Diego: And there, in one of the videos, it was like they were showing the whole world.
00:22:57.228 --> 00:23:01.028
Diego: It was like this whole newly imagined world that these characters live in.
00:23:01.948 --> 00:23:03.428
Diego: And then they did MTV Cribs.
00:23:04.068 --> 00:23:05.168
Joshua: In the animated house?
00:23:05.188 --> 00:23:07.008
Diego: In the animated world, yeah.
00:23:07.668 --> 00:23:12.748
Diego: And showed off their house, like the characters showing up where they lived.
00:23:13.048 --> 00:23:18.868
Diego: So it was like this whole crazy lore that they created, and they still got it going.
00:23:19.248 --> 00:23:21.388
Diego: That is the world they exist in.
00:23:21.988 --> 00:23:38.748
Diego: And that's a really, really interesting thing, because at any moment, they could, having a whole universe to play with, a whole world that they are creating as they go, they can change and create a whole different theme for a new album, whatever they feel like, and introduce a villain if they want to.
00:23:38.848 --> 00:23:46.508
Joshua: Yeah, in their whole lore, there's like six phases of the lore.
00:23:46.708 --> 00:23:49.768
Joshua: The first phase is like the first two albums, and then it goes.
00:23:50.288 --> 00:23:56.108
Joshua: And then the newest phase is like the band started like a cult or something.
00:23:56.188 --> 00:23:56.668
Diego: Oh, yeah.
00:23:56.688 --> 00:23:59.028
Diego: I remember seeing some imagery like that in videos.
00:23:59.128 --> 00:24:13.628
Joshua: Yeah, it's just like they're actually creating a whole storyline while still, it's not really in the sense of like they are still making music just to, it's like they're like a crime group.
00:24:14.428 --> 00:24:16.608
Joshua: But they're like, they do music on the side.
00:24:16.748 --> 00:24:17.268
Diego: Right, right.
00:24:17.288 --> 00:24:19.488
Joshua: Like the band, the animated band itself.
00:24:19.848 --> 00:24:21.028
Joshua: Which I think is pretty cool.
00:24:21.028 --> 00:24:21.488
Diego: It is.
00:24:21.968 --> 00:24:24.368
Diego: And then you've got like people that they collaborate with.
00:24:24.388 --> 00:24:24.888
Joshua: Mm-hmm.
00:24:25.088 --> 00:24:31.068
Diego: I feel it's pretty cool that like they'll sometimes incorporate into the lore, like Del the Funky Homo Sapien.
00:24:31.188 --> 00:24:31.528
Joshua: Yeah.
00:24:31.548 --> 00:24:34.768
Diego: Remember, he was like a spirit that was possessing the hat of the drummer.
00:24:34.928 --> 00:24:43.868
Joshua: In the first, in the, in their, in Gorillaz, like when they were first starting off, Del the Funky Homo Sapien was in most of their songs.
00:24:44.088 --> 00:24:44.888
Diego: That's pretty cool.
00:24:44.988 --> 00:24:46.008
Joshua: Yeah.
00:24:46.328 --> 00:24:52.308
Diego: So yeah, that, that's a really good example, I think, of, of artists just creating their whole new world.
00:24:52.348 --> 00:24:57.368
Diego: And like basically, it is, it is a new story.
00:24:57.508 --> 00:25:02.548
Diego: It is new, a new lore that you can spin all sorts of things off.
00:25:02.568 --> 00:25:07.688
Diego: Like if tomorrow Gorillaz felt like it, they could create a freaking video game set in their world.
00:25:07.708 --> 00:25:08.048
Joshua: Yeah.
00:25:08.368 --> 00:25:09.928
Diego: And that's crazy to think about.
00:25:09.928 --> 00:25:10.348
Joshua: Mm-hmm.
00:25:10.448 --> 00:25:10.788
Diego: Right?
00:25:10.808 --> 00:25:12.708
Diego: They've already introduced many characters.
00:25:12.728 --> 00:25:15.328
Diego: They've already introduced an aesthetic that they're known for.
00:25:15.348 --> 00:25:15.568
Joshua: Mm-hmm.
00:25:15.808 --> 00:25:18.528
Diego: They could absolutely go and create a video game out of that thing.
00:25:18.548 --> 00:25:20.688
Diego: They could go and start putting out comics.
00:25:20.708 --> 00:25:23.728
Diego: They could go and, you know, do a cartoon show.
00:25:24.228 --> 00:25:28.788
Diego: Like it's, the possibilities are endless because they've now created more than just music.
00:25:28.808 --> 00:25:30.068
Diego: They've created a whole new...
00:25:33.848 --> 00:25:34.188
Diego: Jasmine.
00:25:35.568 --> 00:25:38.688
Diego: You got any other examples of artists creating their own stuff?
00:25:39.448 --> 00:25:40.008
Joshua: I think...
00:25:40.108 --> 00:25:40.948
Diego: I got a couple more.
00:25:44.708 --> 00:25:47.568
Joshua: Well, I mean, there's Zarface, obviously.
00:25:47.868 --> 00:25:48.588
Diego: Yeah, yeah.
00:25:48.768 --> 00:25:50.148
Joshua: Zarface, you said like...
00:25:50.168 --> 00:25:54.208
Diego: Yeah, because Zarface isn't appropriating any sort of like existing characters.
00:25:54.228 --> 00:25:57.268
Joshua: Yeah, they have like that robot character.
00:25:57.488 --> 00:25:58.808
Joshua: That's their main thing.
00:25:58.828 --> 00:25:59.288
Joshua: And then...
00:25:59.368 --> 00:26:02.748
Diego: And Zarface, by the way, is a trio of rappers.
00:26:03.308 --> 00:26:05.548
Diego: And one of them is Inspector Deck from Wu-Tang.
00:26:07.268 --> 00:26:10.028
Diego: And Inspector Deck is a huge, huge nerd.
00:26:10.188 --> 00:26:11.768
Diego: That dude is a big geek.
00:26:11.788 --> 00:26:15.688
Diego: There's a reason why he started the first song that he ever appeared with Wu-Tang.
00:26:15.988 --> 00:26:23.268
Diego: He's like, you know, swinging through your neighborhood, like swinging through your hood like the neighborhood Spider-Man, like that whole line.
00:26:23.288 --> 00:26:28.748
Diego: He's like a confess, like comic book fanatic, wrestling fanatic, like all sorts of fiction.
00:26:29.508 --> 00:26:39.268
Diego: And Zarface is the group that he put together with these other two guys to let that geeky side of him loose.
00:26:39.928 --> 00:26:46.548
Diego: So like all of their music is infused with this new, this character that they created, this comic book like character.
00:26:46.588 --> 00:26:47.028
Joshua: Yeah.
00:26:47.368 --> 00:26:56.808
Diego: And any artist that they collaborate with, whether it's Ghostface or whether it's MF Doom, like they all incorporate into the lore, into the lore, yeah.
00:26:56.828 --> 00:26:58.228
Diego: Villains that they're fighting against.
00:26:58.948 --> 00:26:59.608
Diego: It's so cool.
00:26:59.628 --> 00:27:00.208
Diego: The videos.
00:27:00.508 --> 00:27:08.288
Joshua: Yeah, like that animated video they were watching at one time where they were like breaking MF Doom out of an enemy prison or something.
00:27:08.568 --> 00:27:14.108
Joshua: And then the robot character and MF Doom combined and made a giant MF Doom mask.
00:27:14.568 --> 00:27:15.068
Joshua: That was...
00:27:16.008 --> 00:27:24.128
Joshua: It's like the possibilities are endless when you have created your own lore where you don't really have to stick to already existing stuff.
00:27:24.688 --> 00:27:26.688
Diego: I'll tell you, it was a really good example of this.
00:27:26.888 --> 00:27:27.988
Diego: Melanie Martinez.
00:27:30.048 --> 00:27:30.548
Diego: For real.
00:27:31.868 --> 00:27:33.748
Diego: I remember when she was on The Voice.
00:27:34.688 --> 00:27:36.668
Diego: It was one of the early seasons of The Voice.
00:27:36.888 --> 00:27:39.568
Diego: I was following The Voice pretty closely back then.
00:27:39.588 --> 00:27:42.508
Joshua: That's where the judges are turned around.
00:27:42.528 --> 00:27:44.388
Diego: Yeah, they're turned around in the chairs.
00:27:44.388 --> 00:27:46.108
Joshua: And just hear their voice.
00:27:46.268 --> 00:27:46.568
Diego: Yeah.
00:27:47.508 --> 00:27:53.708
Diego: Well, she was a contestant in that, and she had something like third place or something like that that season.
00:27:54.048 --> 00:28:07.708
Diego: But I immediately, bro, as soon as I started hearing her, like the second song she performed, I was like, oh, this chick is something special, because she would do covers, like they all do, right?
00:28:07.728 --> 00:28:09.188
Diego: They do covers of different songs.
00:28:09.608 --> 00:28:18.968
Diego: But she wouldn't make them her own in such a special way, and she would work with the set designers to create really cool scenery that she would perform these things in.
00:28:19.748 --> 00:28:30.788
Diego: And as soon as I saw that she, as soon as the season ended, I was just like, somebody is going to sign this woman to a deal, and she's going to be big.
00:28:30.808 --> 00:28:33.628
Diego: I honestly thought that she was going to be bigger than she has been.
00:28:34.248 --> 00:28:43.068
Diego: But I feel like her creativity kind of limits her almost to be able to break into the mainstream, because she's not making radio hits, really.
00:28:44.308 --> 00:28:55.068
Diego: The first album that she made was all themed around that whole dollhouse thing, and she had that whole persona very much developed while she was on The Voice.
00:28:55.788 --> 00:29:01.528
Diego: And so I figured that she was going to create something like that, but it was much more intense than I ever thought.
00:29:01.808 --> 00:29:09.888
Diego: Every song has to do with something regarding baby themes or doll themes or dollhouse themes, a relationship of the doll family.
00:29:10.308 --> 00:29:19.548
Diego: And she makes very strong points through that imagery, that iconography of the dollhouse thing.
00:29:19.568 --> 00:29:26.208
Diego: Then her latest album was like this crazy fantasy land where she's like some sort of cat-like creature.
00:29:26.668 --> 00:29:36.508
Diego: It's a sort of like fairyland crossed over with Alice in Wonderland, and all of her songs are all related to that fantastic world.
00:29:37.328 --> 00:29:39.868
Diego: Oh, and before that, she had the one where it was all high school.
00:29:40.908 --> 00:29:43.848
Diego: So every single song had to do with high school.
00:29:43.868 --> 00:29:50.508
Diego: There's one that was called Drama Club, and the chorus of the song was like, I never agreed to join your drama club.
00:29:50.808 --> 00:30:00.808
Diego: And it's a song, you know, you hear pop songs on the radio and stuff like that, that are talking about breakups or whatever, but it's all themed around some high school theme, and it's really clever.
00:30:01.588 --> 00:30:05.368
Diego: And she created a whole movie.
00:30:05.388 --> 00:30:13.708
Diego: It's like a two and a half hour long movie, which is basically a video made for every single one of those songs, from start to finish.
00:30:13.728 --> 00:30:15.908
Diego: It's an entire album done in video form.
00:30:16.308 --> 00:30:18.008
Joshua: Like an album movie?
00:30:18.028 --> 00:30:19.528
Diego: Yeah, pretty much.
00:30:20.408 --> 00:30:21.508
Diego: It's phenomenal, man.
00:30:21.528 --> 00:30:25.828
Diego: Like that kind of artistry to me is, like she's creating worlds.
00:30:25.888 --> 00:30:28.508
Diego: Every album that she makes, she's creating a different world.
00:30:29.068 --> 00:30:31.908
Diego: And that to me, like that, I don't know, man, that has my respect.
00:30:32.248 --> 00:30:33.748
Diego: That kind of creativity is incredible.
00:30:34.008 --> 00:30:43.868
Joshua: Something that also has to do with like artists creating their own worlds is Kanye West's first three albums.
00:30:44.548 --> 00:30:49.068
Joshua: His first three albums, The College Dropout, Late Registration, and Graduation.
00:30:49.508 --> 00:30:59.028
Joshua: They're a trilogy, and they're all about Kanye at first dropping out of college, trying to get back in, and finally graduating.
00:30:59.388 --> 00:31:02.108
Joshua: But it tells like, it tells a great story.
00:31:02.808 --> 00:31:11.808
Joshua: And I think those three albums are one of the best, like one of the best trio, what's it called?
00:31:12.128 --> 00:31:19.468
Joshua: Like three strikes of albums that are all in the same story.
00:31:19.928 --> 00:31:32.068
Joshua: Like, I don't know, there's something about how he manages to actually tell like a serious topic with something that he's really passionate about.
00:31:32.408 --> 00:31:36.448
Joshua: And like you said, with his first album, people didn't really like believe in him.
00:31:36.988 --> 00:31:39.648
Joshua: People thought that he was just a producer, that he couldn't rap.
00:31:39.928 --> 00:31:47.128
Joshua: But then he came out with The College Dropout, one of the best hip hop albums ever.
00:31:48.588 --> 00:31:54.048
Joshua: And I think, yeah, I just think that shows Kanye is a genius.
00:31:54.648 --> 00:31:55.128
Diego: Oh, he is.
00:31:55.148 --> 00:31:56.368
Diego: Creatively, he definitely is.
00:31:56.428 --> 00:32:02.248
Joshua: Yeah, he's one of the smartest rappers, I think, that has ever touched the mainstream.
00:32:02.468 --> 00:32:03.928
Diego: For sure, yeah, he really is.
00:32:04.448 --> 00:32:09.428
Diego: It's a shame that he's haunted by so many bad decisions.
00:32:09.948 --> 00:32:14.988
Diego: Yeah, and you can tell he's been hit by life, too, you know?
00:32:15.008 --> 00:32:17.448
Diego: I don't know.
00:32:17.888 --> 00:32:24.328
Diego: When I think back, really, after he lost his mom, it just didn't seem like he was ever the same.
00:32:24.348 --> 00:32:30.208
Diego: I feel like there was a marked point after his mom passed away that just completely...
00:32:30.388 --> 00:32:32.848
Diego: And there's a documentary, the Yenis.
00:32:33.828 --> 00:32:34.508
Joshua: Oh, I think I...
00:32:34.528 --> 00:32:35.928
Diego: Netflix or something, I forget where it was.
00:32:36.428 --> 00:32:37.448
Diego: But you could tell...
00:32:38.048 --> 00:32:41.888
Diego: That's the first time that I realized how important his mom was to him.
00:32:41.948 --> 00:32:44.788
Diego: His mom was kind of a compass in his life.
00:32:45.868 --> 00:32:47.808
Diego: And yeah, man, I don't know.
00:32:47.848 --> 00:32:51.108
Diego: It seems like after that point, everything kind of went downhill.
00:32:51.128 --> 00:32:54.468
Diego: He started really getting very erratic after that point.
00:32:55.488 --> 00:32:57.488
Diego: There could be also mental health issues there.
00:32:57.508 --> 00:32:58.308
Diego: I don't know.
00:32:58.328 --> 00:32:58.888
Diego: There must be.
00:32:59.488 --> 00:33:03.168
Diego: And some of the greatest geniuses in the world have had mental health issues.
00:33:03.348 --> 00:33:12.768
Diego: That's like, there's almost like a thing where genius and beauty and creation come out of the most troubled mind sometimes.
00:33:12.828 --> 00:33:13.248
Joshua: Yeah.
00:33:14.188 --> 00:33:24.928
Diego: You don't have any of the brilliance of Tesla and SpaceX and Neuralink without the troubled mind of Elon Musk.
00:33:25.408 --> 00:33:30.268
Diego: He's a very strange human being, you know, but he's a genius.
00:33:30.848 --> 00:33:48.348
Diego: And it was very similar with, you know, dudes like Steve Jobs and Tesla, the historical Nikolai Tesla that I'm reading a book on now and so many other people that I read about, man, that it's just, yeah, genius is so often accompanied by troubled minds.
00:33:48.448 --> 00:33:48.968
Diego: It's crazy.
00:33:49.268 --> 00:33:49.548
Diego: Yeah.
00:33:50.028 --> 00:33:51.888
Diego: But yeah, that's a really good example.
00:33:51.908 --> 00:33:54.528
Diego: Another example is this band called Coheed and Cambria.
00:33:55.908 --> 00:33:58.188
Joshua: That that's a lot of alliteration.
00:33:58.748 --> 00:34:05.868
Diego: So I have this friend who introduced me to this, and she's like obsessed with this thing.
00:34:05.888 --> 00:34:10.248
Diego: This is a band that has like a very cult following, very niche following.
00:34:10.548 --> 00:34:12.728
Joshua: Like people who are like very...
00:34:12.868 --> 00:34:21.228
Diego: Yeah, like they're not, they don't have a huge amount of fans, but the people who love them freaking love them.
00:34:22.008 --> 00:34:23.848
Diego: And this band is...
00:34:23.868 --> 00:34:24.848
Diego: I've listened to their music.
00:34:24.868 --> 00:34:26.648
Diego: The music is like on Apple Music and stuff like that.
00:34:26.668 --> 00:34:27.368
Diego: I've listened to it.
00:34:28.488 --> 00:34:29.648
Diego: Yeah, it's not bad.
00:34:29.768 --> 00:34:30.968
Diego: Some of it is cool, whatever.
00:34:30.988 --> 00:34:34.348
Diego: But the people who really get into them get into this lore that they have.
00:34:34.368 --> 00:34:44.828
Diego: So all of their albums, except for one, are all based on this science fiction story of this story called The Amory Wars.
00:34:45.248 --> 00:34:46.828
Joshua: The Amory Wars?
00:34:46.848 --> 00:34:47.188
Diego: Yeah.
00:34:47.308 --> 00:34:48.288
Joshua: That they created?
00:34:48.408 --> 00:34:49.548
Diego: That they created, yeah.
00:34:49.568 --> 00:34:52.468
Diego: They created this whole world and this whole story from scratch.
00:34:53.068 --> 00:34:58.068
Diego: And they have now written at least one book about it and several comic books about it.
00:34:59.048 --> 00:35:03.768
Diego: Like written and illustrated by them, which is crazy.
00:35:03.788 --> 00:35:07.168
Joshua: What genre of music are they?
00:35:07.908 --> 00:35:08.308
Diego: Rock.
00:35:08.968 --> 00:35:10.088
Diego: Yeah.
00:35:10.108 --> 00:35:13.648
Diego: Let me see what their actual exact genres.
00:35:14.308 --> 00:35:19.408
Diego: They are classified as progressive rock, is what they're classified as.
00:35:22.008 --> 00:35:23.768
Diego: Coheed and Cambria.
00:35:24.748 --> 00:35:30.388
Diego: And their album names, oh man, their album names are freaking crazy.
00:35:32.888 --> 00:35:36.248
Diego: The second stage Turbine Blade is their first album.
00:35:36.968 --> 00:35:41.688
Diego: In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth III is their second album.
00:35:43.848 --> 00:35:45.288
Joshua: That's their second album?
00:35:45.368 --> 00:35:45.708
Diego: Yeah.
00:35:46.848 --> 00:35:48.328
Diego: Listen to the next album name.
00:35:48.688 --> 00:35:54.328
Diego: Good Apollo, I'm Burning Star IV, Volume 1, From Fear Through the Eyes of Madness.
00:35:54.568 --> 00:35:55.848
Diego: That is a title.
00:35:55.868 --> 00:35:57.248
Diego: That is one title.
00:35:58.948 --> 00:36:04.608
Diego: To be followed up by Good Apollo, I'm Burning Star IV, Volume 2, No World for Tomorrow.
00:36:07.128 --> 00:36:15.028
Diego: Further down the road, you got Vax's Act 1, The Unheavenly Creatures, followed by Vax's Act 2, A Window of the Walking Mind, of the Waking Mind.
00:36:15.728 --> 00:36:16.828
Diego: It is intense.
00:36:17.008 --> 00:36:20.528
Diego: They get into their world.
00:36:20.548 --> 00:36:27.628
Diego: And all of those names, all those titles, all of that has to do with references to this fictional world that they've created.
00:36:27.648 --> 00:36:30.448
Diego: So I talk about creating worlds.
00:36:30.468 --> 00:36:37.628
Diego: That's why the people who love them, love them deeply, because they get into all of this lore, and they become enthralled with this whole world.
00:36:38.048 --> 00:36:38.408
Diego: You know?
00:36:38.808 --> 00:36:45.928
Diego: So yeah, there's definitely a lot of artists out there that are creating entire worlds, characters.
00:36:48.068 --> 00:36:51.908
Diego: And I don't know, I feel like that's my favorite thing.
00:36:52.268 --> 00:37:00.308
Diego: When an artist comes and has a vision beyond just the music, I feel like that's like the most immersive thing that you can get into.
00:37:00.388 --> 00:37:15.388
Joshua: When they really, like, they, if their passion is music, but they don't just want to make music, like they want to actually do something with that music, tell a story, prove a point, something like that.
00:37:16.268 --> 00:37:20.208
Diego: Then you got some other cases like Hamilton, for example.
00:37:20.888 --> 00:37:25.488
Diego: Like, music is no stranger to theater, right?
00:37:25.508 --> 00:37:30.548
Diego: You got tons of stage musicals, you know, that are happening constantly all around the world.
00:37:31.088 --> 00:37:38.068
Diego: But Hamilton, I feel, was a little bit different because Hamilton wasn't just using music for the sake of being a musical.
00:37:38.088 --> 00:37:40.968
Diego: Hamilton was paying homage to an entire music genre.
00:37:41.288 --> 00:37:41.668
Joshua: Yeah.
00:37:42.048 --> 00:37:45.488
Diego: While at the same time telling this very particular story.
00:37:45.508 --> 00:37:54.948
Joshua: Story about a founding father of America mixed with something that is kind of the opposite.
00:37:56.508 --> 00:38:01.708
Diego: And you have some connecting threads between the story and between the story of hip hop, right?
00:38:01.988 --> 00:38:08.088
Diego: Where it's like writing is a very important part of both Alexander Hamilton's life, like he wrote like a mad man.
00:38:08.208 --> 00:38:08.628
Joshua: Yeah.
00:38:08.708 --> 00:38:12.168
Diego: And writing is a very obviously key part of hip hop, right?
00:38:12.188 --> 00:38:19.908
Diego: Like there's tons of hip hop artists who made their way out of very bad situations to much better situations through writing.
00:38:20.168 --> 00:38:22.328
Joshua: Like in the Hamilton mixtape.
00:38:22.468 --> 00:38:22.828
Diego: Yeah.
00:38:22.868 --> 00:38:25.988
Joshua: The song wrote my way out featuring Nas.
00:38:26.548 --> 00:38:37.808
Joshua: He talks about how he wrote his way out of being like in the streets and how his writing skills made him like popular and famous and rich.
00:38:38.488 --> 00:38:45.108
Joshua: But with Alexander Hamilton's case, he wrote his way out of the streets too, but in a different way.
00:38:45.448 --> 00:38:48.928
Joshua: Like he wrote his way into a position of power.
00:38:48.928 --> 00:38:49.548
Diego: Right, right.
00:38:49.748 --> 00:38:50.288
Diego: Exactly.
00:38:50.308 --> 00:38:55.368
Diego: Which you can argue that the most famous hip hop artists in history have positions of power.
00:38:55.488 --> 00:38:55.868
Diego: Yeah.
00:38:55.988 --> 00:38:56.268
Diego: Right?
00:38:56.528 --> 00:38:58.368
Diego: Like there's influence, there's power there.
00:38:58.388 --> 00:39:01.948
Diego: And then you've got the other thing, which is the whole immigrant part, right?
00:39:01.968 --> 00:39:12.808
Diego: Where Alexander Hamilton came from an island in the Caribbean, and immigrants are like a big part of hip hop history as well.
00:39:13.268 --> 00:39:15.528
Diego: You know, minorities overall.
00:39:15.648 --> 00:39:21.568
Diego: So there's like connecting threads, but I mean, look at Hamilton, like how successful it was, you know?
00:39:22.008 --> 00:39:36.468
Diego: It's something that created like this crazy musical experience where like people who don't usually like musicals like me are completely enthralled by it, you know?
00:39:36.488 --> 00:39:44.548
Diego: I went to it because of the hip hop thing, and I walked out of there just like completely enamored with the entire experience, you know?
00:39:44.568 --> 00:39:49.988
Diego: Like the acting, the stage, the decor, the choreography is incredible.
00:39:50.328 --> 00:39:55.608
Diego: That whole spinning stage thing, the floor, the way that they used that was so freaking clever.
00:39:56.048 --> 00:40:04.808
Diego: Like all of it was just this incredible experience, but all of it fueled by this connection between music and this love of hip hop and history and all that.
00:40:05.148 --> 00:40:07.348
Diego: So yeah, Hamilton is a really cool case.
00:40:09.328 --> 00:40:15.988
Diego: I got another one that's like one of my favorites, and that's the relationship between Imagine Dragons and the show Arcane.
00:40:16.308 --> 00:40:20.608
Diego: Yeah, I feel like that's awesome, man.
00:40:21.408 --> 00:40:23.188
Diego: I mean, the fact obviously that the song...
00:40:26.368 --> 00:40:27.028
Diego: What's the song name?
00:40:27.048 --> 00:40:27.368
Joshua: Enemy.
00:40:27.528 --> 00:40:28.108
Diego: Enemy, thank you.
00:40:28.428 --> 00:40:32.708
Diego: That the song Enemy was used as the intro song to the show itself.
00:40:32.728 --> 00:40:35.468
Diego: So you hear that song every single time, and it's such a great song.
00:40:35.508 --> 00:40:37.048
Joshua: I think it's crazy how...
00:40:37.408 --> 00:40:43.608
Joshua: I mean, Imagine Dragons is one of those bands that like manages to make a bunch of like radio hits.
00:40:44.168 --> 00:40:51.828
Joshua: But this song was a radio hit, but this is like one of the first cases that I've seen this.
00:40:52.328 --> 00:41:02.468
Joshua: Where a song made only for an intro to a show became like a number one radio hit.
00:41:02.488 --> 00:41:02.848
Diego: Yeah.
00:41:03.228 --> 00:41:03.548
Joshua: Yeah.
00:41:04.428 --> 00:41:06.288
Diego: And then you have the video of the song.
00:41:06.508 --> 00:41:08.208
Joshua: Oh my god, the video is so good.
00:41:08.368 --> 00:41:14.388
Diego: And the fact that they did animation only for the video, all in the style of the show, set within the style with the world of the show.
00:41:14.428 --> 00:41:22.128
Joshua: And they had the members of the band and JID as animated characters.
00:41:22.188 --> 00:41:24.568
Diego: And those guys now officially exist there.
00:41:25.648 --> 00:41:26.008
Diego: Like that.
00:41:26.028 --> 00:41:26.588
Diego: Come on, man.
00:41:26.608 --> 00:41:27.368
Diego: That's super cool.
00:41:27.388 --> 00:41:28.348
Diego: I love that.
00:41:28.548 --> 00:41:38.768
Joshua: And the fact that the lyrics are exactly talking about the events that happen in the show.
00:41:38.788 --> 00:41:44.788
Joshua: But if you've never watched the show and you're just somebody who heard it on the radio, you're just like, oh, these lyrics make sense.
00:41:44.808 --> 00:41:45.468
Joshua: Right.
00:41:45.488 --> 00:41:46.528
Diego: You don't bump up against it.
00:41:47.488 --> 00:41:48.788
Diego: Is that like the theme?
00:41:48.868 --> 00:41:50.368
Diego: Because I feel like the themes of the show.
00:41:50.388 --> 00:41:51.028
Diego: I don't know.
00:41:51.928 --> 00:41:53.888
Diego: That show just, what a great show.
00:41:54.548 --> 00:41:55.808
Diego: I can't wait for the next season.
00:41:56.748 --> 00:42:05.628
Diego: That show does such a great job of like within this weird world that they created, just telling very human stories.
00:42:06.928 --> 00:42:14.548
Diego: Like you could detach all of the other stuff from around it, and then you just got this really crazy human story from these characters.
00:42:14.748 --> 00:42:26.008
Diego: And I feel like the song plays off of that so much, like all the certain lyrics in the song that just hit you, even if you have no context of the show's story.
00:42:26.968 --> 00:42:27.968
Diego: This is brilliant, man.
00:42:28.228 --> 00:42:34.328
Diego: But yeah, I love the fact that these artists, these musicians could officially exist within that world.
00:42:34.528 --> 00:42:35.188
Joshua: Yeah, that's so cool.
00:42:35.408 --> 00:42:36.388
Diego: I kind of wish they would.
00:42:36.408 --> 00:42:44.148
Diego: Like just in one scene in passing, let me just see Jid pop up somewhere and have a little conversation with somebody.
00:42:44.448 --> 00:42:45.128
Diego: They'll be cool.
00:42:45.608 --> 00:42:47.048
Diego: That'd be pretty neat.
00:42:47.068 --> 00:42:48.448
Diego: But yeah, that's a pretty cool one.
00:42:48.808 --> 00:42:50.008
Diego: You know what else came to mind?
00:42:51.108 --> 00:42:51.908
Diego: Michael Jackson.
00:42:53.188 --> 00:42:55.208
Diego: Michael Jackson, talk about geniuses, right?
00:42:55.628 --> 00:43:00.268
Diego: Michael Jackson was a guy who knew how to create worlds with his music.
00:43:01.308 --> 00:43:02.588
Diego: So think of Thriller.
00:43:03.468 --> 00:43:04.708
Diego: You ever seen the Thriller video?
00:43:05.708 --> 00:43:06.788
Joshua: Where he's a zombie?
00:43:06.888 --> 00:43:07.208
Diego: Yeah.
00:43:07.608 --> 00:43:09.308
Diego: But it's more than just being a zombie.
00:43:09.328 --> 00:43:11.988
Diego: He basically creates a whole mini movie within that video.
00:43:12.648 --> 00:43:14.808
Joshua: I don't think I've seen that video.
00:43:15.088 --> 00:43:16.268
Diego: Oh, you got to watch it, man.
00:43:16.568 --> 00:43:30.028
Diego: It starts off with him going and picking up his girl for a date, and they go out, and they're going to watch a movie or something like that, and then suddenly a zombie outbreak happens, and she thinks she's going to be safe with him, and then suddenly turns around and he is a zombie.
00:43:30.048 --> 00:43:31.608
Diego: He becomes the leader of the zombies.
00:43:32.008 --> 00:43:33.488
Diego: And that's when the music begins.
00:43:34.288 --> 00:43:35.048
Diego: That's so cool.
00:43:35.248 --> 00:43:35.648
Diego: Yeah.
00:43:36.168 --> 00:43:43.148
Diego: And that whole thing, like the production, the production level, you could see, like, when you watch the video, check out the makeup and stuff like that, and the zombies.
00:43:43.508 --> 00:43:47.528
Diego: Like, all of it looks, like, legit, like zombie movie quality stuff.
00:43:47.648 --> 00:43:48.588
Diego: It's really, really good.
00:43:49.288 --> 00:43:54.148
Diego: And yeah, I don't think he's, I don't know if he's a zombie or a werewolf.
00:43:54.168 --> 00:43:54.648
Diego: I forget.
00:43:54.668 --> 00:44:00.288
Joshua: I'm pretty sure it's a zombie, because I'm pretty sure I've seen the thumbnail for that video on YouTube.
00:44:00.308 --> 00:44:00.948
Diego: No, he's a zombie.
00:44:01.488 --> 00:44:03.168
Joshua: And it's like a green, like...
00:44:03.188 --> 00:44:05.188
Diego: I definitely know that everybody is zombies.
00:44:05.208 --> 00:44:07.268
Diego: Like, his backup dancers are all zombies.
00:44:07.288 --> 00:44:08.648
Diego: But yeah, I think he's a zombie, too.
00:44:08.688 --> 00:44:10.708
Joshua: Thriller, thriller, thriller.
00:44:10.728 --> 00:44:11.668
Diego: So good.
00:44:11.848 --> 00:44:17.808
Diego: But he, and he created it with multiple things, like, what was this?
00:44:18.208 --> 00:44:20.008
Diego: The thing, it was Smooth Criminal.
00:44:21.108 --> 00:44:27.208
Diego: I think it was something called Moonwalker, and it was pretty, something pretty similar.
00:44:29.228 --> 00:44:29.868
Joshua: The dance?
00:44:30.768 --> 00:44:34.888
Diego: Inspired, I guess, by the dance, but it was like a mini film, a short film.
00:44:35.768 --> 00:44:42.728
Diego: And it had like a whole story, but like suddenly the story would feed into one of his songs, one of his music videos.
00:44:42.868 --> 00:44:44.708
Diego: It would turn into like a music video of sorts.
00:44:44.908 --> 00:44:51.488
Diego: And like every part of it was, it is kind of similar to Melanie Martinez's whole thing, right?
00:44:52.808 --> 00:44:55.848
Diego: Or rather, she would have been more similar to him because he came before, obviously.
00:44:55.868 --> 00:45:00.088
Diego: But like he created this whole movie, this whole like entertainment thing.
00:45:00.988 --> 00:45:06.188
Diego: And Smooth Criminal is, oh, God, it is so good.
00:45:06.888 --> 00:45:16.648
Diego: The whole scene where he walks in in this like a mobster hangout spot, and he walks in with like his, you know, white-ish, grayish suit or whatever.
00:45:16.668 --> 00:45:20.428
Diego: He looks, you know, like classic Michael Jackson, Smooth Criminal getup.
00:45:21.088 --> 00:45:34.588
Diego: And then, you know, tosses a coin into the jukebox, and then the song begins, and then like all these criminals, basically a fight between mobsters and Michael Jackson, but it's all choreographed in the form of dance.
00:45:35.288 --> 00:45:39.928
Diego: And he is basically beating the crap out of these guys to the beat of Smooth Criminal.
00:45:40.248 --> 00:45:41.908
Diego: It's ridiculously good, man.
00:45:43.848 --> 00:45:56.508
Diego: In the movie or the documentary, This Is It, which was a documentary that was being created to like chronicle Michael Jackson's final tour, but couldn't happen.
00:45:56.528 --> 00:46:02.528
Diego: The tour couldn't actually begin because he passed away before the time for the tour came around.
00:46:02.928 --> 00:46:08.228
Diego: But they still released the movie as a tribute, I guess, to him.
00:46:09.248 --> 00:46:13.608
Diego: But it ended up being this thing that was showing off the genius that this man had.
00:46:13.968 --> 00:46:16.888
Diego: It was like a behind the scenes look at how...
00:46:17.048 --> 00:46:26.168
Diego: Because Michael Jackson was an artist that by this point, he had a dozen songs that he could tour over and over and over and play those dozen songs.
00:46:26.928 --> 00:46:29.608
Diego: And no one needed anything new from him.
00:46:30.288 --> 00:46:36.148
Diego: People would have lost their minds if he just played those 12 songs at every single tour.
00:46:36.928 --> 00:46:43.788
Diego: And so this was supposed to be, because he knew it was going to be his last one, this was supposed to be the biggest show that he put on.
00:46:46.928 --> 00:46:53.188
Diego: And it showed the genius that he had in working with the set designers and the special effects people.
00:46:53.468 --> 00:46:56.548
Diego: They were creating entire worlds for each one of the songs.
00:46:57.008 --> 00:46:58.868
Diego: Like the set would completely change.
00:46:58.888 --> 00:47:00.148
Diego: It was like a movie on stage.
00:47:00.168 --> 00:47:01.068
Diego: It was almost like theater.
00:47:01.088 --> 00:47:01.728
Diego: It was crazy.
00:47:02.508 --> 00:47:14.848
Diego: And yeah, I think that Michael Jackson must have inspired a lot of people that we're talking about when it comes to creating worlds, because I don't think anybody was doing it like him.
00:47:14.868 --> 00:47:16.168
Diego: It was really something special.
00:47:16.188 --> 00:47:25.488
Diego: So wow, music, fiction, geekdom, movies, TV, comics, all of it, man.
00:47:25.508 --> 00:47:29.068
Diego: It's like it feeds each other in a way.
00:47:29.988 --> 00:47:35.128
Diego: And I, for one, am music is a very important part of my life.
00:47:35.148 --> 00:47:40.648
Diego: I've always got music going as I'm working, as I'm playing, as a modern about.
00:47:40.668 --> 00:47:42.008
Diego: Music is very important to me.
00:47:43.008 --> 00:47:46.208
Diego: And obviously, all things geekery are important to me.
00:47:46.228 --> 00:47:50.968
Diego: So whenever I see these two things crossing over, there's a certain excitement.
00:47:52.248 --> 00:47:54.608
Diego: Any closing thoughts you're hearing?
00:47:55.948 --> 00:48:02.068
Joshua: I mean, I guess it's just like Venom and Eddie Brock.
00:48:02.988 --> 00:48:03.308
Diego: What?
00:48:03.788 --> 00:48:04.988
Joshua: It's like Venom and Eddie Brock.
00:48:05.008 --> 00:48:07.348
Joshua: Like you said before, it's a symbiotic relationship.
00:48:07.368 --> 00:48:08.888
Diego: Oh, yes, exactly that.
00:48:09.288 --> 00:48:09.628
Diego: Yeah.
00:48:10.448 --> 00:48:16.428
Joshua: Venom needs to eat people so that it doesn't eat Eddie.
00:48:17.048 --> 00:48:17.428
Diego: Yeah.
00:48:18.208 --> 00:48:21.828
Joshua: And Eddie also keeps Venom alive because it needs a host.
00:48:22.288 --> 00:48:23.268
Diego: He feeds him chickens.
00:48:23.828 --> 00:48:25.128
Joshua: He does feed him chickens.
00:48:25.128 --> 00:48:26.068
Diego: In the movie at least.
00:48:26.488 --> 00:48:27.108
Joshua: In the movie.
00:48:27.988 --> 00:48:32.908
Diego: You know, we've talked about before, like, that we feel there's a space, and I think I'll close with this.
00:48:32.928 --> 00:48:42.368
Diego: Like, I feel that there is, there's still a space for a big-ass crossover of mediums.
00:48:43.488 --> 00:48:57.268
Diego: Someone creating something that exists in music and in, like, you know, maybe animation or in a movie form and in a comic, and then I feel like I keep on seeing inklings of things headed in that direction.
00:48:58.088 --> 00:48:59.728
Diego: Like, somebody doing something big.
00:48:59.728 --> 00:49:03.868
Diego: Like, what Arkane did with the music, I felt was pretty, pretty strong.
00:49:04.448 --> 00:49:05.008
Diego: Yeah.
00:49:05.108 --> 00:49:08.848
Diego: What Spider-Verse has been doing with music is pretty strong, too, you know?
00:49:08.928 --> 00:49:10.348
Joshua: What I just thought of something.
00:49:10.348 --> 00:49:10.688
Diego: Yeah.
00:49:11.288 --> 00:49:20.908
Joshua: The ultimate anything would be something that, like, a story that can be consumed in different ways.
00:49:21.368 --> 00:49:32.068
Joshua: So let's say there's a movie, a story, like a movie, and then the story from that is transformed into an album, let's say.
00:49:32.548 --> 00:49:36.548
Joshua: But it's not just the audio from the movie.
00:49:36.608 --> 00:49:39.688
Joshua: It's a whole new album, but tells the same story.
00:49:39.768 --> 00:49:42.628
Diego: Yeah, but it adds something more to it, right?
00:49:42.648 --> 00:49:45.168
Joshua: Yeah, but it's like, yeah, it's the same story.
00:49:45.308 --> 00:49:47.148
Joshua: It's just in a musical form.
00:49:47.508 --> 00:49:56.448
Joshua: And then let's say it's a book with the same story, and then a video game that tells the same story.
00:49:56.868 --> 00:49:57.968
Joshua: And then like a...
00:49:57.988 --> 00:49:59.448
Joshua: But that would be so cool.
00:49:59.468 --> 00:50:01.008
Diego: But not the same story, though.
00:50:01.188 --> 00:50:04.608
Joshua: No, no, not the exact same story over and over again.
00:50:04.628 --> 00:50:06.608
Diego: Yeah, but it'd be really interesting.
00:50:06.628 --> 00:50:16.548
Diego: Imagine something that a story that began in movie form, and then to continue the story, you had to listen to an album.
00:50:16.968 --> 00:50:22.848
Diego: And to continue it after that, you had to read a book, and then to continue it after, to conclude it, you have to play a video game.
00:50:23.308 --> 00:50:24.448
Joshua: Yeah, that's what I meant.
00:50:25.688 --> 00:50:27.128
Diego: That'd be crazy, right?
00:50:27.148 --> 00:50:36.928
Joshua: Yeah, a story that would force you to, if you really are interested in the story, it would force you to have to consume different forms.
00:50:36.948 --> 00:50:39.928
Diego: Yeah, it's like a form of scavenger hunt almost.
00:50:39.948 --> 00:50:40.468
Joshua: Yeah.
00:50:40.728 --> 00:50:41.648
Diego: I like that idea, man.
00:50:41.668 --> 00:50:42.788
Diego: That'd be really, really cool.
00:50:43.288 --> 00:50:45.588
Diego: Or music could be accompanying every factor, right?
00:50:45.608 --> 00:50:47.568
Diego: Because there's music involved in all of those things, really.
00:50:47.588 --> 00:50:49.968
Joshua: Yeah, except a book.
00:50:50.208 --> 00:50:51.128
Diego: Not necessarily.
00:50:51.788 --> 00:50:55.988
Diego: It could be that you need to listen to the music as you're reading the book.
00:50:56.688 --> 00:50:58.008
Diego: That'd be interesting, actually.
00:50:58.788 --> 00:51:03.368
Diego: Like, the songs create certain moods or something for what you're reading.
00:51:03.388 --> 00:51:04.648
Diego: I don't know, something along those lines.
00:51:04.648 --> 00:51:09.408
Diego: But music is definitely a part of video games and of movies or shows and all that.
00:51:09.648 --> 00:51:18.608
Diego: Yeah, again, I think that, like, I would love to see that creative, crazy melding of different media.
00:51:18.648 --> 00:51:20.408
Joshua: Every form of media.
00:51:20.408 --> 00:51:22.208
Diego: Yeah, that would be really, really cool.
00:51:22.648 --> 00:51:42.188
Diego: But for now, we've got great examples of artists who either, like, appropriate characters, storylines, story tropes, ideas, concepts from music, or, like, are citing different forms of entertainment and fiction and content, or who are inspired by these things and go off and create their own crazy worlds.
00:51:42.208 --> 00:51:44.348
Diego: And I want to see more of that, man.
00:51:44.368 --> 00:51:47.828
Diego: I love getting lost in an artist's world and an artist's vision.
00:51:48.268 --> 00:51:59.408
Diego: And when it goes beyond just lyrics and songs and melodies, and you really, like, submerge yourself into a world, I feel like that is the ultimate form of artistry.
00:51:59.408 --> 00:52:02.848
Diego: And I love being able to get lost in someone's world like that.
00:52:09.087 --> 00:52:15.847
Diego: Thank you all for joining us for this episode on music and its relationship with geekdom.
00:52:15.947 --> 00:52:18.707
Diego: We had a fun time talking about this stuff.
00:52:18.727 --> 00:52:23.687
Diego: Music is a big part of our lives over here in our neck of the woods, and we hope that it is for you too.
00:52:23.947 --> 00:52:32.487
Diego: If we missed any cool examples of the relationship between music and geekdom, hit us up, let us know about it.
00:52:32.507 --> 00:52:36.807
Diego: Remember, you can go over to our website, geekology101.com.
00:52:37.227 --> 00:52:42.587
Diego: There, you'll find all sorts of information on us as your hosts.
00:52:42.847 --> 00:52:51.067
Diego: You can also gain access to all the different ways to subscribe, to our YouTube feed, and all the way at the bottom, you'll find the way to contact us.
00:52:51.087 --> 00:52:59.967
Joshua: So hit us up, or if you want to hit us up through more traditional means, you can contact us at g101podcast at gmail.com.
00:53:00.487 --> 00:53:03.187
Diego: Thank you all for listening, and we will catch you in the next episode.
00:53:05.327 --> 00:53:06.447
Diego: Goodbye, A Boy Named Jit.
